LSWR Signal box design and build Part 1
This article is split into two documents, due to file size limitations. ‘LSWR Type 1 Signal Box.Part 1’ & ‘LSWR Type 1 Signal Box. Part 2’
SRSteve - Sep 18, 2017 at 11:05 AM
Following my thread on LSWR Signal Boxes and use of Draftsight here is my build of a model of a LSWR Type 1 Signal Box. This will be my first scratchbuilt building !
Here is what I am trying to achieve:
There are quite a number of preserved examples around but I found drawings hard to come by. Both of Pryer’s books only provided a ground level box so I determined to create my own drawing, so a fair amount of research followed. This included a very kind chap from the Bideford Railway Heritage Centre ( who look after Bideford and Instow boxes) who, unsolicited, went and took some measurements and sent me some photos. I also discovered a feint drawing of Crediton on RMWeb. Many of the photos tend to be platform mounted since, I suppose, they were easier to access and photograph.
I acquired and taught myself to use the free version of Draftsight ( there are several free Autocad programmes about, QCAD may be simpler but with less features).
I discovered, not entirely to my surprise, that there were many differences in the signal boxes, many likely due to the local contractor involved. Key differences included:
- Base material, mainly brick or stone rubble, but wood and others used
- External planking – mainly horizontal but some vertical, some asbestos sheets etc, etc! Planking varied in width and numbers of boards etc
- Window Provision, Positioning and Design, numerous variations on glass pane arrangement on main windows, mainly 4 x 2 or 3 x 2.
- Porch and laddering arrangements. Extensions etc
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SRSteve - Sep 18, 2017 at 11:21 AM
I created my drawing using dimensions taken from measurements, other drawings, and estimates from photos and brick counting etc. For these you need pictures taken as square on as possible and I used a known dimension, or brick counts etc to get a good estimate of the dimensions needed. Some of this is illustrated in the pictures below.
I was not planning an exact copy of a real life box so I was able to use a degree of licence in the layout of the box, but basing everything on the evidence of actual boxes. My drawing ended up looking like these below; I used the layers options to separate windows, roof, porch etc onto different layers to I could create views of the sides etc for cutting out etc.
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ChrisSimpson - Sep 18, 2017 at 11:55 AM
Looking good. For others there is a freely downloadable programme , GIMP, which allows a square on elevation to be created from one which is not quite square. The last time I looked at it, there are quite a few tutorials to show how it's done.
Chris
Raymond Walley - Sep 18, 2017 at 12:15 PM
Yes, the GIMP is a good program to have for all sorts of things to do with altering photographs.
BrushType4 - Sep 18, 2017 at 12:27 PM
That looks like you're making good progress.
I'm a fan of Qcad for 2d work and was just wondering what features it doesn't have??
SRSteve - Sep 18, 2017 at 1:22 PM
I am not an expert on QCAD so my comment is based on the fact that Draftsight is pretty comprehensive and is based on an industrial/ professional system. QCAD “looked” simpler and more basic but probably has all the basic features without the breadth and more advanced options. I have used Draftsight a bit now but my QCAD use was exploratory only. I am sure someone with more detailed knowledge can offer a more informed view; BrushType4 on my earlier thread on a Draftsight problem may be able to help here
SRSteve - Sep 18, 2017 at 2:02 PM
Just realised the question was from BrushType4 !!! Derrrr!
StephenFreeman6449 - Sep 18, 2017 at 3:44 PM
I have tried both Qcad and Draftsight but have to say that I prefer DoubleCad XT5, which is what I used to do the files for etching my square signal posts (2 part), the only tricky bit was finding out which file format PPD liked best (the program has a large variety available). As I understand it, it is basically a free cut down version of Turbocad, though apart from the free version there is also a paid for version with more bells and whistles, which I didn't need.
SRSteve - Sep 19, 2017 at 7:50 PM
Materials
I’d always dismissed card in my mind as being a bit too flimsy, but started to change my view when using card to fix some of the issues with the LSWR Type 4 NMR kit I mentioned in my previous thread. I tried some laminations and it worked well being quite stiff and I could adjust thicknesses to achieve the required dimensions. For most of the key elements of the model I used nominally 1mm card ( actually 1.2mm) and 0.5mm card to make 1.2/0.5/1.2 laminations. I made oversize pieces glued together with rocket card glue or Evostick Interior Wood Glue ( watered down a touch) weighted down between flat surfaces and left to dry overnight. The next picture tries to show this… with a blank and a side being marked up for the boarding.
I also had a supply of Howard scenic English Bond embossed card brickwork. The original stuff was made of stouter 0.7mm card and I have some of this but the more recent sheets I bought last year are more embossed paper than card.
I took dimensions directly from the drawings, allowing for the jointing arrangement at the corners and thickness of brick card/ cladding to be added later, cutting the sides to size and cutting out windows, doors etc. With thicker card it was essential to use sharp scalpel blades, change regularly and to pay close attention to keep the knife cut vertical/ square. I also marked the planking lines, including the internal vertical boards which I scribed; you can also see the chimney and internal chimney breast below, and also see that I have left cutting out the front windows until the last minute as the verticals are quite thin and flimsy. I am half expecting to have to re-do these as part of the window arrangements. In the end, I cut them out but retained an over-height bar across the top to be removed later to provide a strengthener during construction
SRSteve - Sep 22, 2017 at 4:37 PM
I've been doing the boarding and brickwork on the front and rear elevations. The positions of the boards had already been drawn on and strips of 0.5 card cut double width (for my 6“ boards this was 7mm). First a half width “board” was glued in place and then the main boards added, the overlap creating the slight angle to the boards. The boards were attached over width and trimmed back when the glue was completely dry. The boarding and brickwork for the sides can only been done once the walls are assembled into the “box” to cover the “ends” of the front and rear.
The Howard's scenic embossed brickwork was cut slightly oversize, I used the top brick row as my alignment to ensure all was level, marked and cut the side edge at 45 degree as a mitred edge to match the pieces which will be attached to the sides ( does anyone have a reliable method of cutting consistent mitres in card? I did it by guesswork against a steel edge but it's not perfect) and then trimmed the bottom edge. I have allowed a 1' extra height at the bottom to ,plant, the building in the ground. I also realised it would probably have been better to make the rear from a single piece of brick card but the join will be hidden once the chimney is added
A bit of tidying up around windows needed!
Raymond Walley - Sep 23, 2017 at 10:17 AM
Picture framers use angled cutters for cutting their mats, I have one somewhere and I am sure they must be available in places like Hobby Stores where one can buy stuff to do ones own framing as I used to do years ago. It cuts a clean 45º angle.
Tomlinson5811 - Sep 23, 2017 at 10:59 AM
Like this little fella.
Because it's a bit agricultural, I'd cut the bevel first, before getting down to work with a scalpel.
SRSteve - Sep 23, 2017 at 12:01 PM
That looks like what I need….. a quick look on amazon and eBay shows you can get very sophisticated (and expensive tools for this job)… I could not easily find a Logan 1000 in the U.K., but there is a “basic” model which looks very similar and a 2000 model for about £30… thanks for this I think I'll try one
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SRSteve - Oct 1, 2017 at 7:47 PM
I have made a bit more progress this weekend, although hampered by helping out at our local village beer festival !
Firstly, I finished boarding the front elevation, I left the “Boards” overlong to trim back once the glue was 100% dry; I also cut out the floor and scribed for planks, I also used a pin to indent nail marks !…….Last time I used some brown acrylic with a bit of red , with a slightly dirty wash finished with satin varnish to represent the floor colour. Does anyone have any better suggestions please?
I trimmed back the front elevation and it then looked like this……. I have decided to delay adding the brick card to the front elevation until I have chance to use the mitre cutter Raymond has kindly offered to send. Any slight imperfections at the corners will be covered by the corner trim.
Next step was to assemble the sides into the “Box” using a flat surface and a couple of squares….
Then the front elevation was added and it now it's beginning to give a feel for what the finished building will look like… the gouged out section above the point and signal rodding exit is to allow the piece of bullhead rail to be used as the lintel to sit level with the brick surface.
The Type 1 LSWR Boxes seemed to have a row of vertical pegs outside the front windows….does anyone know what the purpose of these were?…I am in two minds as to whether to model them or not? I could not readily find a real life picture but what I am talking can just bee seen in this model picture
SRSteve - Oct 1, 2017 at 8:01 PM
Just found this example at Medstead & Four Marks
Dumbrell10492 - Oct 1, 2017 at 11:28 PM
Hi Steve, I'm not certain but could those pegs be there to prevent birds alighting - especially pigeons? Or are they a relic of external shuttering? WW2 blast shutters perhaps? I speculate. Terry
Jim Snowdon - Oct 1, 2017 at 11:38 PM
Steve,
Those pegs are there to retain the bottom of the sliding sash windows in lieu of a continuous groove, which would otherwise have been a dirt and water trap, leading to either premature rot or the window becoming jammed by detritus. With the pegs, the slot is effectively open fronted, allowing rainwater to drain away.
The same technique is still in use on modern rolling stock with sliding doors, essentially to avoid rubbish from obstructing the doors.
Jim
Raymond Walley - Oct 2, 2017 at 9:59 AM
My recollection of working in a signal box was that the floor was covered with brown linoleum and highly polished.
Tomlinson5811 - Oct 2, 2017 at 11:05 AM
The same technique is still in use on modern rolling stock with sliding doors, essentially to avoid rubbish from obstructing the doors.
Very useful piece of info. - thank you. If SRSteve enlarges his photo in post #17, he'll see the pegs only exist on the recessed pane (and he's been a bit over-zealous on his model) - which corroborates your explanation.
SRSteve - Oct 2, 2017 at 12:51 PM
Thanks for the information Gentlemen, that all makes good sense, the picture with the pegs is not my model though; it's all I could find quickly until I spotted the Four Marks one. But also it also has given me confidence of the state of my memory (!) as it was that the pegs were only on the opening windows (as per the Four Marks picture) and I was puzzled when I also spotted that these extended along the full width of the windows on the model.
SRSteve - Oct 23, 2017 at 9:01 PM
Finally managed to make some more progress this weekend; Cut out the porch, but then found a flaw in my drawing and it was not wide enough to cover the internal door so had to re-do it. The picture below shows the cut-out parts and the original side !
I also cut out the internal door; As this is my first real building “build” I am experimenting and planned to use laminations for the door and a polycarbonate centre for the glazing. I thought I’d used a pretty new/ sharp scalpel blade but the initial paint revealed a fair bit of cusping (see picture) which will need to be sanded down. How long is it reasonable to expect a blade to stay sharp ? – I am using a Swann Morton Craft scalpel. Initial attempts at the window bars were notably unsuccessful until I found some high grade thin card from an advertising hand-out. Even then if you look carefully you’ll see I lost the top vertical bar. Any views on how narrow it’s possible to achieve with manual cutting? At the moment , considering the main windows, an earlier offer for laser cutting is looking attractive, but I am going to persevere for a bit yet.
SRSteve - Oct 23, 2017 at 9:09 PM
I realised my first big error….I forgot to start the side planking with a dummy row of card and as a result using the thicker embossed card I have the brickwork will stick out beyond the planking. This would not look right at all…however, the newer thinner embossed card is much thinner and saves the day. So below are the embossed card front and sides ready to fit
Also, arrived are the chimney pot and rainwater pipe fittings from Scalelink
So here’s the box clad in the brickwork, with the part assembled porch and chimney.
I was wondering what the best practice was for “priming” card prior to painting, does it need it? Here’s another view , I am a bit disappointed with the even-ness of the planking on one side, but I am going to have to rely on the fact that the prototype was not always that brilliant either!
Tomlinson5811 - Oct 23, 2017 at 9:17 PM
Any views on how narrow it’s possible to achieve with manual cutting? At the moment , considering the main windows, an earlier offer for laser cutting is looking attractive, but I am going to persevere for a bit yet.
Steve, have you considered a lining pen which “runs neat Humbrol” - if you'd be happy with the lack of relief?
For the superstructure, have a look at Stephen Fay's painting guide on Intentio's website.
I used polycarbonate when glazing a full-size shed, and it was a real pig to cut. The Stanley knife made little impression, and it splintered roughly when I attempted to snap it. Sanding the edges was difficult. Clear styrene might be a better bet.
Raymond Walley - Oct 24, 2017 at 10:22 AM
Did you coat your card in shellac first? It will aid cutting accurately and act as a base for paint.
Bob Alderman - Oct 24, 2017 at 12:29 PM
Widow frames. The method used by Gordon Gravett is to cut strips from self adhesive labels and stick that to the glazing material.
Bob
Tomlinson5811 - Oct 24, 2017 at 1:11 PM
I haven't read any of his articles for years, but I seem to remember that he sticks the label down “whole”, cuts the outline of the glazing bars & window frame with a scalpel, then, using the blade of the scalpel “teases” the corner of the unwanted bit upwards and peels off to reveal the glazed pane. Probably easier to do than describe.
SRSteve - Oct 24, 2017 at 6:31 PM
Thanks thanks for the ideas chaps.
No I did not coat card with shellac first, something to do next time
I did try a lining brush but I'll need a LOT more practice with that but a lining pen should be easier so worth a try
Bob thanks , hoping you meant window as I have no plans to gain a widow just yet! I'll give the label approach a go too.
I have also got a supply of narrow plasticard strip to try.
I have a couple of thicknesses of polycarbonate to try for the glazing, picked up a tip of using CD cases for this. In fact for the main windows the rigid polycarbonate seemed a good potential material to provide a structural foundation for the window and frame.
I'll report how I get on.
Bob Alderman - Oct 24, 2017 at 8:41 PM
Oops, definitely “window”.
I have had success sticking plasticard strips onto clear plastic.
There is always the fear that the adhesive will flood on and fog the clear.
But, if you align the strip and then use a small brush that comes to a point you can apply the adhesive at one end and capillary action takes it to the other. You will see that just enough has been applied. Don't rush or you can disturb a strip that has not fully bonded.
Bob
SRSteve - Nov 4, 2017 at 6:07 PM
More progress to report.
I have acquired a bottle of Shellac, made progress on the roof and experiments on potential window solutions/ options
First the roof:
Checking the dimensions against the model as built so far (to make sure I did not end up with a roof perfect drawing size but not big enough to hide flaws in the main box build, I cut out the roof sections using the drawing as the base dimensions, and also cut our two formers/ roof beams. I used the 45 degree mitre cutter Raymond sent me to cut the roof sections; the joints are not exactly 45 degrees but it worked really well in getting a close neat joint. I also used some grey board to make a “Jig” to the required roof base size to aid assembly and achieving the right size. The roof was 1mm card. The photos explain this better I think.
Once this was done I added some token internal roof beams, not much chance they will be accurate but they look reasonable OK and will hardly be visible in the finished model.
I am weighing up now whether to use the same printed self adhesive label approach for the slates as I used on the re-made Type 4 box roof I built prior to starting this Type 1 box or to try another method. Next, I think I'll do the gutters; learning point from last time is to attach these to the box and not the roof.
Continued on doc No 58 (LSWR Type 1 Signal Box. Part 2)
