Taken from the forum 2017

1. Bob Alderman - Jul 20, 2017
Did BR newly built vans continue the use of white lead on canvas for their wooden roofs? Or some other coating? Indeed what on those vehicles inherited from the Groups at their overhaul too.
And on steel sheet roofs what coating and what colour?
The final colour in use seems to be a mucky grey but at an earlier stage when new?
Bob

2. Pat Buckley - Jul 20, 2017
Bob, its a very thorny question, I have always assumed that van roofs were built and treated the same way as coach roofs after all why change it if it works. The book on LNER coaches gives a detailed description of how a coach roof was finished and I can see no reason for it to be different although it may not have had quite so much preparation and finishing treatment. As to the colour I would not have thought anything fancy or indeed expensive was used other than a “suitable dark colour”. The accountants may well have had a hand in the choice as well as finances were very closely inspected at all stages especially on the very cash strapped railways.
I will be watching this thread very carefully to see what answers you get from those “in the know”.
Pat.

3. Jim Snowdon - Jul 20, 2017
Bob,
There is evidence that some BR vans were turned out with white leaded roofs, however, it is also evident that there was no standard practice, nor, I suspect, standardisation in the materials used. What is quite likely is that individual works carried on using much the same practices as they had before BR, with standardisation creeping in only slowly. The same appears to be true of the paint colours used; the ex-LNER workshops simply carried on using the LNER shade of red oxide when (re)painting fitted goods stock, rather than the BR shade.
What needs to be taken into account as well is the long interval between overhauls on goods stock - Nationalisation may have happened at the beginning of 1948, but it is more than likely that the last of the pre-nationalisation liveries did not disappear until the late 1950s. The three most important elements of a wagon's livery scheme are the number, tare weight and capacity. Whether it still carried LMS, or NE or GW was immaterial.
Jim

4. Paul Bartlett - Jul 21, 2017
This is the response I made on 15 July.
I'm not sure really what you are asking. BR lasted for 50 years and materials changed.
However the 1957 painting instructions I have says for those not covered by a proprietary process or specially prepared roofing canvas shall receive on coat finishing coat roof paint. The mixing instructions say this should approach B.S.C. 635. It is a very complex mix, but I can't attach to this.
If the roof is recanvassed then the wood gets primer, stopping and coat of Jointing paint. Stretch canvas and one coat roof canvas dressing, one coat 1st coat roof paint and them the same finishing coat.
Hope of help
Paul Bartlett

I'll attach the paint schedule when I have the documents out again and the scanner on - could be weeks.
I would be interested to learn what BSC 635 was.

5. Bob Alderman - Jul 21, 2017
Paul
I have resorted to Google.\
I have not found BSC 635 but BS 365. This colour is “lead”. This would, I think, be an appropriate roof colour. I wonder if your spec BSC 635 has been misquoted? There certainly was a spec BS 381C. A lot of the colours here are for military aircraft. There is no 635 colour, nor anything that matches “lead”. This has been overtaken by more recent specs.
Bob

6. Peter Reynolds - Jul 21, 2017
On page 354 of 'Southern Nouveau' it discusses colours for Southern Railway Infrastructure. BS381C was the list of British Standard Colours (BSC). Looking at the numbers listed, number 632 was 'Dark Battleship Grey, for example. If you go to the following website [URL]http://www.britishstandardcolour.com/[/URL] there is a colour palette, and 635 is about a third down the page, described as 'Lead' but looks to me similar in shade to Revell 'mouse grey' (number 47).

7. Peter Reynolds - Jul 21, 2017
Actually, a massive 'OOPS' from me… I am looking down at the colour chart on a laptop at an angle to the screen, and the colours are lighter. When you look straight on, the shades are much darker, and 'Lead' now looks like Revell 'Panzer Grey' (number 78).

8. Bob Alderman - Jul 21, 2017
Thanks for that.
It would seem that any dark grey shading lighter for time will do for a roof.
Bob

9. Pat Buckley - Jul 21, 2017
GWR freight grey is the one !
Pat.

  10. Paul Bartlett - Jul 21, 2017
This

11. Bob Alderman - Jul 22, 2017
That's definitive Paul!
My guess is those colours end up Grey, but difficult to copy the make-up.
Bob

12. Jim Snowdon - Jul 22, 2017

It may be definitive in terms of the recipe, but there is no means of knowing how accurately the paint/wagon shop foreman matched it to the sample card, and adherence to a precise shade would never have been seen as critically important. The prime purpose of the paint was to seal the roof covering and keep the weather out, after all. Equally, whatever shade they came up with on a particular day, it would not take very long after the wagon left the workshops for the colour to start changing shade due to the effects of atmospheric pollution and weathering generally.
All that can be said is that, whatever the era being modelled, seeing trains of wagons (or carriages) with pristine white roofs is incredibly unrealistic.
Jim

13. Bob Alderman - Jul 22, 2017
Re: Post #12 - All that can be said is that, whatever the era being modelled, seeing trains of wagons (or carriages) with pristine white roofs is incredibly unrealistic.
Too true!
Bob

14. Pete Joy - Jul 24, 2017
My advice, for what it's worth, suitable coach roof dirt paint…. on everything!
PeteJ

15. Mike Sandell10466 - Jul 24, 2017
As PeteJ has mentioned coach roof paint here is a photo of the ends of a couple of BR coaches at SVR taken for the details not the colour.

16. Mike Sandell10466 - Jul 24, 2017 at 10:09 PM
And a rather too clean Gresley coach roof again taken for the detail, but the nearer one is probably a better colour.