Gladiator NER/LNER/BR B16/1 - A North Eastern Workhorse
Prepared by Tommy Day
Originator Rob Pulham
Thread and Forum Title Title: Gladiator NER/LNER/BR B16/1 - A North Eastern Workhorse
Thread start date Apr 1, 2017
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The next build to cross my workbench is another one that's not for me but for the same Gent that I built the G5 for last year. This one is a finish it off build of a Gladiator B16/1 The main body work and the basic chassis are built. The chassis is to be rigid and pick up is to be by the American method. The kit contains lots of lovely brass castings Plus some nice whitemetal ones too. I have the week off and I will be at home the week after Easter so I plan to make a start on this then. Any spare time on between after finishing of the V4 brake van will be spent blackening wheels and preparing the castings etc.
(NOTE - the kit was originally designed by Steve Barnfield, then went to Fourtrack, currently in the Gladiator range)
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Sandell10466 - Apr 1, 2017 at 9:51 PM
Rob I assume that this is the same kit as produced by Steve Barnfield. I was advised by a local modeller who had built one that the boiler and footplate were not parallel, at least not on his model. The front of the boiler was slightly higher than the firebox. I have also built one, but took steps to ensure that mine were parallel. Can't remember any details, and can't find any notes in the old forum that I thought I had put on. It looks as if you are already past that stage anyway, and it does not seem to have a problem as far as I can tell from the oblique pictures. Regards Mike S
RobPulham - Apr 14, 2017 at 7:44 PM
A good start was made this afternoon, I got the half the drivers/tender wheels shorted out and the ones that didn't need shorting, cleaned and into the blackening solution. I also blackened the buffer heads. Time for food and then back on with it.
RobPulham - Apr 16, 2017 at 3:05 PM
Although I didn't get back to it on Friday night further progress was made yesterday.
To get a feel for things I decided to make a start on the tender. There are a few options for frame spacers supplied and I am using those recommended for O finescale and for anyone else who might be building one they don't leave much in the way of side play should you desire it.
Next up I did the water scoop - so far all the holes have been etched on the small side which is so much better than them being over etched.
I also soldered up the brakes and found them to be a little odd in that the shoe overlays are slightly smaller than the main etch on the side nearest the wheel. It took a few moments of trial to work out which way round they fitted.
I popped along to York Show this morning, our first ever visit. It was an enjoyable show and I came away with a couple of books - The Tourette Rail Tank book and the Yeadons volume on among others the B16's - Booklaw had them on at £10 each so it was rude not to partake.
The kit was designed by Steve Barnfield and Steve was one of the demonstrators at York upon seeing him, I planned to have a chat to him about the B16. But despite standing in front of him for a good 5 minutes, he never once looked up from what he was doing to engage me in conversation.
RobPulham - Apr 17, 2017 at 12:12 PM
In an effort to try to get an answer to the vacuum tank removal date question, I posted enquires on RMWeb and the LNER forum. So far I haven't had any replies, so me next plan is to fit it. Working on the theory that it will be easier to remove later than to leave it off and then try to fit it should it be needed.
In the meantime I moved on to the front bogie (the plan is to try to get a running chassis to take along to Leigh show for a run on Saturday). There are two options for building the bogie in the instructions, one uses L type spacers and the other incorporates side control. I opted to go for the side control method. All went well until I got to fitting the bearings. The instructions say to leave them loose until all is square etc. and then solder them in. What it doesn't say (but admittedly the photo further on in the instructions shows) is that the bearings need to be fitted with the flange to the inside of the frames. I didn't notice this and having soldered them in with the flange to the outside I realised that I had a lot!!! of side play. There isn't any mention of when/where to fit the lovely hornblock/spring castings either. My newly bought Yeadon volume gave me a couple of reasonably clear photos of the hornblock/spring on the outside of the frames. To achieve this I had to cut away the section of the axle bush that protruded through the frames, cutting back flush with the frames. Once the hornblock/spring castings are soldered on there is just a little side play. *Note to David if he's looking. It would be worth adding something to the instructions at some point on which way round to fit the bearings The photos also show quite a prominent bar/frame stretcher across the front of the bogie so I added one at each end from scrap etch. I haven't soldered the bars that hold the side control yet just in case I need to shorten the springs once I test it.
Jim Snowdon - Apr 17, 2017 at 12:32 PM Rob, It is difficult to gauge the springs from just the photographs, but I would suggest that they are over strong for the job. from experience, Slaters hornblock springs are probably nearer to what is wanted, given that the idea is to lead the loco into the curve, not force it over with a crowbar. Jim
RobPulham - Apr 17, 2017 at 5:24 PM Thanks Jim, that useful to note. The springs are those from sprung couplings but I haven't soldered them up so they can be altered if needs be. - The down side is that the rods are 1.6 mm (the kit said 1.2) but there wasn't any supplied to me with it so I used what I had in.
MrGladiator - Apr 18, 2017 at 8:22 AM At present we have not had the chance to incorporate any improvements into kits in the range but it is our intention to do so. As a minimum we will be adding addenda to instructions based on the helpful feedback we are getting directly and through the various website forums. We ran into some potential problems with intellectual property rights that would have limited what we could do to the kits but having engaged a specialist lawyer we now have a good idea of what we can and cannot do. For those who do not know, I still have a full-time job in Bangkok, so Trisha (Mrs Gladiator) is doing the heavy lifting while I am away as well as having a full time job of her own. It was our intention that I should have given up the exotic life in the orient by now to concentrate on developing the business but that is delayed until the end of this year. Please bear with us. Sorry for the thread hijack. David
RobPulham - Apr 18, 2017 at 9:23 AM
Yesterday afternoon saw another good session, I managed to get the rods laminated, and jointed, the wheels and crank pin bushes tapped 10ba and a start made on cleaning up the slide bars and cross heads.
Although the chassis is rigid the rods are designed to be jointed and it made sense to do so. The recommended method in the instructions is to use a 10 ba cheese head screw (supplied) which you put through the rod and solder to the rear layer (putting a piece of paper in between to prevent soldering it up solid). You then file down the screw head until all traces of the slot are gone and you are left with it looking like this.
*Note* the washer that you see on the centre axle is just there to support the joint/stop side play on the rods while I tested it before I finally shorten the bushes and screws.
RobPulham - Apr 18, 2017 at 6:12 PM From the instructions it reads like Steve updated the kit with an extra bogie etch after having a few problems with clearance on the cylinders with the original bogie design.
RobPulham - Apr 18, 2017 at 6:17 PM To get them (the wheels) black I scrub them with a plastic pan scrubber in very hot soapy water (by very hot I mean as hot as you can stand your hands in no hotter) and then keeping them as hot as I can drop them in a dilute solution of Birchwood Casey gun blue for steel and then leave them over night. In the morning I take them out again into hot water and scrub them with an old toothbrush before drying them and then rubbing them over with a cotton bud with a bit of oil on just to keep them from going rusty while I am still building.
RobPulham - Apr 19, 2017 at 11:33 AM
Yesterday's bench session centred on the connecting rods, cylinders, slide bars and cross heads.
When I came to try the connecting rods I found that on these the holes are etched slightly over size even without taking out any etching cusp which would probably wear away quite quickly. The answer was to use a bit of brass tube that fit snugly over the crank pin bush to create a bush. I reamed out the con rods to take the outside diameter of the tube, cut a couple of short lengths end ensuring that one end of each piece was flat. I place the piece flat side to the face side on the con rod and soldered it in from the rear. I then filed the rear smooth.
Next up I cleaned up and straightened the slide bars and piston rods etc. to get a nice clean smooth sliding fit. To be honest although it took a couple of hours, it was more tweaking to straighten the various bits than filing much off. Although I did go over the sliding bits with fine well used wet and dry to polish them at the end.
Then I did the same with the motion bracket. The kit is designed so that it just sits in the frames and once the slide bars are attached it allows the cylinders and motion to be removed as a single unit. It required a bit of straightening and bit of filing to get it to sit over the frames without pinching them.
I note from the photo that there still appears to be a slight bend in the middle, but its a nice fit so I am not inclined to upset that by attempting further straightening where it won't be seen.
Last but not least was fitting the cylinder covers. This is always an interesting challenge, made even more interesting in this case by the slope of the cylinders. The instructions advise that the covers have been made over size to allow fitting and filing back. They are, but only just and another millimeter on the overall width would have made the job so much easier. There is talk about annealing for such bends but since the covers are half etched and like many tasks was much easier in the doing than the thinking about before hand.
The hardest bit was holding it all in place once shaped to solder it. I prefer to use the microflame to solder where possible and I made much use of four pairs of self locking tweezer to hold one side in place before adding flux, a short length of 145 solder and applying the flame. This was repeated and the first cover was nicely in place just needing the overlaps fining off.
Maybe I was getting complacent or perhaps it was because it was about quarter past eleven last night, but the second one fought back. Each time I soldered one section another bit came loose, That's despite having lot's of clamps in place but I got there in the end.
Despite the soldering problems with the second one it was still much easier to do in practice than I had built it up to be in my mind before starting the job.
The length of the covers also fall short of going right round the cylinder. I was tempted to put in a bit of scrap to fill the gap but having read the various notes on clearance at the back of the cylinder I will leave that until I have tested it.
RobPulham - Apr 20, 2017 at 9:58 AM
Work continued yesterday (after spending far too much time on the internet!!!).
the slide bars installed on the motion bracket after slowly working my way backwards with the filing until the cylinders were in the right place.
you can see from the inset photo in this image how much I had to take it back. I did it in three stages checking the fit after each stage.
I shortened the piston rods a bit so that they fit inside the slide bars with approx. 2mm protruding from the gland on the inside of the cylinder. Now that I have it all assembled I will fit the connecting rods and cut the piston rods to final length.
The close ups show that I still have a bit of cleaning up to do.
Buckley10339 - Apr 20, 2017 at 1:48 PM Rob, did you know about the front piston rods on the B16/1 ? sitting here having a read and looking at the photos i realized that all the unrebuilt ones had long piston tail rods in the photos.I see you have some large castings on the cylinder fronts but they do not look corect.In the photos the front of the cylinders are flat with no central boss and four very large bolts (?) at the 3-6-9 and 12 positions.I will attempt to photo a book page and put it on here to show you. Pat. (Photo cannot be reproduced due to copyright)
RobPulham - Apr 20, 2017 at 2:39 PM Cheers Pat, This one is to be finished as 61450 as it was in BR days. The only photo that I have of 61450 in BR days, shows it to have had the piston tail shortened.
Because I am building it for someone else, it's going to be a pretty much out of the box job. If it was for me (and I suspect that I will have one at some point because I am really enjoying it) I would carve off the centre boss, re-fit the tail and add the outer bolts but this one will remain as it is. I will be adding some extra detail such as the prominent lever arrangement under the cylinders - unless they are already included in the kit. I haven't seen anything so far on the etches that might be those bits but because the kit had been part built the etches are all over the place and not straightforward to find bit's on.
Sandell10466 - Apr 20, 2017 at 5:15 PM
Rob Some time ago in this thread (on Page 17) you asked for information about the Vacuum Tank removal date. (For reference most of that page is taken up by bogie photographs). I may have jumped to the wrong conclusion, but having perused Yeadon I could not see any vacuum tanks on any tenders, at least not where the LNER put them on top of the tenders. Did you mean the air reservoir for the Westinghouse brakes, which is the prominent tank at the rear of the tender frames. The RCTS green book says that Westinghouse brakes were removed from B16s between Feb 1932 and July 1936 with individual changes being listed in the summary, so if you are doing it in BR days this tank would be missing. In 'an illustrated history of NER locomotives' by Ken Hoole (published 1988) there is a drawing of the 4125 gallon self trimming tender. This shows an auxiliary reservoir 12“ by 36” between the frames at the front right hand side, and a 15'' VP cylinder at the front left hand side, more or less directly under the tool boxes Hope this helps and I look forward to seeing the completed article at the Locomotion test track some time. Mike
RobPulham - Apr 20, 2017 at 6:53 PM
Thanks Mike, Yes, it was my error in writing vaccum when it should have been air - no wonder I didn't get any replies. Thankfully someone on the LNER forum worked it out like you did and pointed out my error. Many thanks for looking though.
Fingers crossed it may well put in an appearance at May's Locomotion meet up.
RobPulham - Apr 20, 2017 at 8:40 PM
This morning saw the chassis run sweetly at the first go. (there is a video clip of this on the forum) Unfortunately the motor is too big for the firebox as built so a smaller motor will be sought. .——————————————————————————————–
RobPulham - Apr 21, 2017 at 10:05 AM
Last night's session saw the brakes and water scoop added to the tender.
I always seem to struggle with setting up brakes that are produced from etchings in that they seem to want to move in all directions when you are trying to solder them. I came up with the idea of wrapping a couple of layers of masking tape (the cheap kind not best Tamiya!) around each tyre which not only creates a gap against possible shorts but it also keep the worst of the flux from the wheel too. This allowed me to lean each shoe against the wheel and with the aid of some locking tweezers I was able to hold it in the right orientation while I soldered it.
Within the kit there is only one brake spreader for the front set of brakes. The rest are just represented by 0.7mm rod. I chose to file up a couple more from scrap etch and solder them on top of the pieces of rod. This not only looks a bit better for the few minutes that it took to do but it also gives a shoulder to space the brake shoes apart - again solving one of the potential directional shifts while trying to solder them.
You can't really make it out in the photo but the forks in the two actuating rods that come from the front to the first spreader are slightly two wide for the single layer etch of the spreader. I could have nipped them closed a bit and just soldered them but again it was only the work of moments to wrap a couple of pieces of the half etched tags that I have cut of the various parts around the spreader and once the etching cusp was removed from the forks a much better fit that again held itself in place while applying the solder to it.
In reality the water scoop would fit below the brake spreader but in the interests of not having it catching anything on the track while running I soldered it to the top of the spreader. Once the outer frames are in place not much of it will be seen so I chose safety over accuracy.
The added spreader certainly improves the look from the rear of the tender.
Sandell10466 - Apr 21, 2017 at 1:08 PM
Rob I am pleased you received the same advice re the rear cylinder from the LNER forum contact, better than conflicting!
Just looked at my tender again to check on the front cross member installation and found a more fundamental difference in the brake rigging. Mine has pull rods inboard of the wheels as well as outside. Don't know if this was just following the instructions, but I must have had enough parts to allow for this. Photos of the tender brake gear are a bit rare but on Yeadon page 77 the tender of 61476 appears to have twin pull rods as does 61440 on page 76. One advantage of this could be the lack of a cross rod for the centre wheel's brake shoes, which would avoid the conflict that you have found with the water scoop.
Only looked at my tender as I wasn't sure that you have the cross rod in the correct hole in the vertical link at the front wheel's brakes. I feel that the cross rod which also has pull rods to the front of the tender should be in the central hole in the link, so the pull is shared between this brake block and the pull rod to the rear. Not easy to see on any photos and probably mostly hidden behind the tender frames. Mike S
RobPulham - Apr 21, 2017 at 3:57 PM HI Mike, Thanks for this I have had a study of the photos that you mention and agree I will have to see if there are any more parts hidden away on the other etches. There wasn't any mention of them in the instructions (unless I missed them). Regarding which hole to use, I was debating but couldn't find a clear enough photo so just went with what it looked like in the couple of photo's of the tender chassis in the instructions. They are quite small and it was hard to make it out. As you say once the outer frames are on there's not much to be seen so unless I have more parts that I can add I amy opt to leave it as it is now it's together.
RobPulham - Apr 21, 2017 at 8:54 PM There are definitely no parts for inner brake linkages in this version of the kit. The photos in the instructions clearly show only the one set of outer linkages and the rods between are as I described earlier. Interesting how these kit's evolve over time.
RobPulham - Apr 21, 2017 at 9:41 PM
Today's efforts have seen the tender body make some progress.
So far everything has fit as it should and the only minor concern is that the handrail holes look as if they might be a bit on the large side but until I have the overlays soldered on I won't know for sure.
One of the cleverest bits of the kit so far is the tender flares. The tender sides have a half etched overlay that you have to create a flare on and then another half etched overlay to go over that for the just the flare. This means that although you have more flares to bend being half etched they are easier to form. Although I initially wasn't looking forward to it, I recalled reading an article way back when I modelled 4mm, of someone who used a piece of rod in a vice and he squashed the flare against the thick rubber of a replacement shoe heel. I didn't have a spare rubber show heel but I did have a set of rubber soft jaws for my proxxon vice (many thanks to Richard Lambert - Dikitriki for recommending the vice to me when I was having a look at his work in progress Duchess last year). The instructions recommend using a 3/16th rod and I had some lengths that I bought for setting up chassis before I invested in my jig. I placed the overlay against the tender side and measured how much flare was above the side 4.5mm and drew a line at 4.5mm from the top across each side the the rear.
I placed the rod in the vice utilising the V groove for gripping round sections. I put a soft jaw on the other side placed the flare along aide the rod with the pencil line just visible and worked my way along using the vice to squash the flare against the rubber of the soft jaw. I had to go along each piece a couple of times until I was happy with the result and then I repeated the process for the small flare overlays.
I just need to solder them onto the tender sides now but that will be a job for tomorrow as an early night beckons before going to Leigh show tomorrow.
RobPulham - Apr 24, 2017 at 5:22 PM
Sunday afternoon saw the tender overlays added to the sides and rear of the tender. This wasn't quite as smooth as I had hoped and I ended up having to run over it with the iron to get them to sit flat which meant quite a bit of cleaning up.
The original plan was to tin both sides and use the micro flame but I just couldn't get it to stick for some reason. The other issue was that despite my best efforts otherwise by bending them into all sorts of shapes the aluminium clips, bent the flares in places meaning some remedial work.
As you can see I still have some cleaning up to do, but I don't plan to clean up the inside of the flares until I have the tender top in place.
I am not sure whether it was me that got the overlay slightly out of line (it is wider than required so that you can file it back to get a crisp edge) or that the etched hole was slightly out of line but I will have to open the slot a bit to fit the rear lamp iron.
Next up I made a start on the tender top and coal chute. I want to get this fitted before attempting to make the corners of the tender flares from solder.
These all went pretty much as planned but there is a sight gap that I will need to fill. Again I am not sure whether it was my folding or the etch that's slightly out but it's an easy thing to sort.
I haven't done any cleaning up on this as I did it last thing last night and I was back to work this morning so couldn't be too late to bed. - The redness is from using the microflame to solder the seams. It washes of easily enough with some bar keepers friend.
RobPulham - Apr 27, 2017 at 4:54 PM
Following on from some dialogue with MikeMeg over on RMweb who had posted on his 4mm thread, a photo of the tender from the front (Mike has recently built the 4mm version of this kit which is currently held, but not released for sale yet by London Road Models). The photo is from Ken Hoole's NER Loco book which I have, but I hadn't realised that the photo was there until Mike mentioned it.
(Photo omitted for copyright reasons)
This is a cropped view of the tender front from the photo which differs a little from that portrayed in the kit.
The kit provides a flattened V shaped plate with a rectangular cutout for the coal door and a coal door which is riveted and had two holes for a handle. The V shaped plate when fitted leaves long triangular gaps down either side of it.
There are some etched rivet strips provided to cover these and to replicate the angle plates that you see in the photo. I didn't find these (my fault for not looking at either the instructions or the etches before proceeding) before I had made up a couple of angle plates out of some half etched scrap that I had to hand.
having discovered them I still elected to use the ones that I made, because the rivet spacing was quite close together on the supplied strips. And it would have meant soldering two strips on instead of four.
I am sure the riveted strips will not be surplus for long.
The arrows on this repeat photo, shows what I have added to it so far. I still have a few bits to do - this sort of thing brings out the detailing devil in me I just can't help it.
RobPulham - Apr 28, 2017 at 4:19 PM
Sorry Guys no working latch on this one. But following on from Jim's very valid comment, further work was done last night to represent the sliding plate on the front of the coal chute.
Without taking the front back off and doing major surgery I had to employ a little subterfuge to give the impression of a sliding plate but I feel that once painted it will look the part.
I also managed to get the front upper coal plate fitted and the lifting rings.
I still need to add the steps to the sides of the coal chute but that's about as far as I will go on this build (I keep forgetting “straight from the box”…) - I have lots of ideas for future builds of my own though.
RobPulham - Apr 28, 2017 at 5:55 PM
Oh yes, I have been testing all the way. I am trying to get as much as can fitted while it's still as maneuverable as it is, and I where I can solder from the ends/underneath to minimize clean up. The trouble with getting photos like the tender front is it becomes difficult to know where to stop. If you can't see it's there etc. :rolleyes:
RobPulham - May 2, 2017 at 7:10 PM
Yesterday having cut short a long weekend up north by yours truly forgetting to take his medication along I looked more closely at the brake and water scoop standards. I had more dialogue on RMweb with MikeMeg on the subject last week and he had remade the 4mm versions. I thought initially that although slightly on the fine side that the castings looked usable. - By fine they are quite slender in appearance whereas the photo posted earlier show them to be quite chunky, especially where the mounting pieces.
These are the castings provided.
The problem came when testing them against the tender front (stuck in place temporarily with bluetac).
Despite my cutting them off the sprue with as much length as possible, they are short in the column length
I couldn't see any immediate way of extending the column* A better person than me might have been able cut it of and drill out the fixing brackets but they looked a bit on the fine side for me to be confident that I could achieve it so I decided to have a go at making some replacements.
Now I have to be honest at this point and say that this really became a test exercise to see what I could achieve with my Proxxon mini pillar drill with the X-Y table attachment. I have been looking for something to try it out in anger, having only drilled out 4 buffer stocks since I got it at Christmas.
They took me all day to make but I really enjoyed it and I have parts roughed out to make a couple more for a build for myself at some point. to give an idea of scale/chunkiness the new columns are made from 1.6mm rod.
*Thinking about it afterwards I could possibly have joined an extension piece onto the castings where they go through the wooden floor extension that's shown on the photo of the tender front
RobPulham - May 3, 2017 at 6:28 PM
Another session last night brought the tender a little nearer to completion.
I managed to get all the whitemetal castings soldered on. I still haven't decided whether to fit the small steps at either side of the coal chute or not the jury is still out.
I haven't soldered the coal space/tender front in yet because I want to be able to get at the hand rails, lamp irons etc from the back before I do, then the last job [s]will[/s] should be making the corners for the flares.
RobPulham - May 30, 2017 at 7:10 PM
Due to having a lot on at work I haven't been able to get back to the B16 until Sunday afternoon and yesterday.
Still good progress has been made since then with most of the tender detailing cracked. I found that the rear tender flare overlay wasn't on straight to that had to come off and be straightened.
The coal space is still loose until I get the brake/water scoop standards in place - I figure it will be easier to drill the floor if it lifts out.
Note the longer hand rail at the front of the tender. This seems to have been a feature of a few of the B16 tenders and thankfully you can make it out on the one photo of 61450 that I have found to date.
The small steps were a bit of a fiddle but worth the effort I think.
RobPulham - Jun 3, 2017 at 5:01 PM
This week has been a good one at the bench seeing the tender almost complete.
The brake/water scoop standards rotate and you now need to unscrew them to get the chassis from the body.
When refitting the chassis during testing the cranks on the bottom of the shafts of the standards I realised that the brake rods were catching on the outer frame and had held one end of the chassis from fitting flat to the underside of the body. There is a plate with a slot in it in which two slots in the front ends of the inner chassis engage this was about 1.5 too high. To cure it I adjusted the offending brake spreaders and the rods inwards and then with the chassis upside down and engaged in the slots I used the microflame to run around the etches of the plate while pressing on the underside of the chassis with a block of wood. After a few moments the plate eased slowly downwards into the correct position and when the solder set again it was as it should have been.
As far as I can tell there is just the vacuum pipe and the axleboxes/spring castings to fit. I may also make the central 'buffer' from styrene but I will see how it goes when I test the running to see if it needs it.
Next it's on to detailing the chassis before tackling the body details.
RobPulham - Jun 5, 2017 at 5:11 PM
With the tender virtually complete my return from Doncaster saw a start made on detailing the loco chassis. I add the springs to the drivers and then looked at the brake gear.
The instructions are along the lines of fit parts…. with a couple of build photos to assist with the general positioning.
Thankfully looking at prototype pictures helped answer most questions. the first being how the hanger mounts fit
There is a better view in Yeadon but I found this and it saved me scanning the book.
As with some older kits, the forks in the etches for the rods connecting the brake spreaders are a little over etched so needed bushing.
By accident or design some scrap from the chassis etches folded over the spreader was just the right thickness to fill the gap.
They just need soldering together once fitted.
RobPulham - Jun 13, 2017 at 4:59 PM
A slight diversion from work on the chassis has had me looking at the oil boxes that are quite prominent on the sides of the frames above the footplate.
Although I have some castings they are too long and wouldn't cut down very well so I decided to have a bash at making some from scratch.
I measured the length of three together and marked it off on a length of square bar and then marked a line 1mm from the top, along what will be the front edge. Next I filed the marked section down to the line at the front while maintaining the full height at the back. - To give me a sloping top.
A strip of scrap etch to form a lid and another length with two rivets punched in either end forms the mounting bracket.
Before cutting each individual oil box off the bar I drilled holes for the pipes in the bottom and then added some 08mm OD tube and length of fine brass beading wire to represent the oil pipes. Three down three more to make for the other side but at least two of them don't need the tube/pipes fitted because they sit on the splasher top.
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RobPulham - Jun 28, 2017 at 7:01 PM
After an exciting weekend doing other things I got back to the B16 last night and cracked on with fitting the brakes.
I wound a few layers of masking tape around the wheels to both space the brake shoes away from the wheels and to help reduce the risk of rusting from soldering with the wheels in place.
I was forewarned by a gent on RMweb who has recently built a 4mm version of this kit that the length of the yokes that fit to the brake spreaders is a bit long and so it was with the 7mm version. I used a diamond disk in the Dremel to cut a slot in the brake spreader to allow the fork in the yoke to slip back and effectively shorten the rod. - see photo above.
I also need to shorten the rod that connects to brake the the link below the ab too. The plan is to solder a piece of scrap to the end with the boss on and file a second boss which will allow me to create a forked joint once I shorten the rod.
RobPulham - Jun 30, 2017 at 9:47 PM Which I duly did on Wednesday night. In fact I was feeling pretty pleased with myself until this morning when by chance I found a photo which showed me exactly how the brake gear should fit at the cab end. It will be good news to David (Hill) that in fact you don't need to shorten the rod to the cab rear at all, you just need to connect it to the right lever from the cross shaft. All being well I should have it corrected on Monday evening and I will post before and after photos to show how I got it wrong initially. In the hope that it will prevent someone else from making the same mistake. I have say that the instructions are lacking in this area being of the 'fit parts X,Y,Z,' . an email to Steve Barnfield although it elicited a response didn't help because he couldn't remember how it fitted. To give Steve due credit he did offer to assist in person if I was in his area but I am a long way from him.
RobPulham - Jul 4, 2017 at 4:22 PM
As described in the last post I made an error in the assembly of the brakes this was due to a combination of things that may not necessarily affect other builders of the kit - somewhat basic instructions, combined with my lack of knowledge of the prototype and struggling to find a photo of a B16/1 that shows how they fit. And finally because the kit had been started lots of the etches had been cut up and finding some of the bits has been a bit challenging - The second lever that I needed to connect the brake pull rod to was attached to a small scrap of etch that I found by chance in the bottom of the box.
Hopefully this will assist anyone when they get to this point in their kit.
This is where I had got to in my ignorance last week.
This is what it should have looked like - this is a crop from a photo of an NER V Class, which is referred to in the instructions as having the same backhead details as the B16 it was only after spending sometime studying the backhead that I realised that it also showed how the brake gear fits at the cab end.
Then this is the result of last night's efforts - I had to add a representation of a slack adjuster to make up for my shortening the shaft previously
Finally not the best shot in the world but it does look more like the real thing now
RobPulham - Aug 9, 2017 at 6:01 PM
It seems like a while since I updated this thread so it must have been a good holiday.
Time has been spent since getting back on the little things that take time and don't seem to evidence much progress but all add to the overall picture.
I have started looking at the upperworks starting with the cab fittings. A lot of the detail is cast on to the backhead and there are some castings supplied. Sadly a lot of the detail is a bit low relief so I suspect that I will remove and remake most of it.
I add some fine brass wire to the gauges
I also made up some washout plug bases these are two layers of brass with a stub of square section brass inserted. The plan is that this will be soldered behind the holes in the firebox and then half etched surrounds soldered over them. A length of square section was included in the box but I am unsure as to whether this comes with the kit or it was provided by the owner.
I also soldered the elbow provided onto a length of tube for the vacuum ejector pipe.
MrGladiator - Aug 11, 2017 at 6:29 AM If Mrs Gladiator has done her job properly, the square wire is provided with the kit!
RobPulham - Aug 29, 2017 at 6:54 PM
Although other things have been taking a priority at this busy time of the year (for us), the B16 has been ticking along slowly. After consultation with the gent that I am building it for, the plan is only to replace the detail that is supplied as brass castings in the kit.
I have added the lockers/splasher tops inside the cab and cut the backhead to fit. I have also done most of what will be replaced with just one casting to fit tonight. - shown below the cab rear. This will fit to the left of the backhead below the hand wheel and where the ghost of the cast pipe can still be seen - must do a better job of smoothing it of before putting the new one in place. The pipe work for the water gauges is very fine and a bit flimsy so I knocked up a couple of pipe clips from scrap and soldered them in place. I suspect that I will need to do the same with the final pipe when I have it in place.
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RobPulham - Sep 12, 2017 at 7:08 PM
Moving on, the back head is now finished as far as it's planned and looking at the cab photo I have, there is quite a prominent dial on the rear of the left cabside. This was quickly replicated with a dial, a slice of brass tube and a strip of thickish brass bar (it's mounted on a thick wooden plinth). Sadly none of that invisible solder here. It is all pre clean up though.
Then came the cab roof which was another of those jobs that I had put off a couple of times for no logical reason. It went to get well and the design makes it fit the cab very nicely and it's much better than some I have done. I still need to add the ventilator and I think the whistle but I will check that. I also need to adjust the feed pipe to the gauge everso slightly as it's a bit high up on the cab side making the roof rock ever so slightly.
You can see where I had to make a cut out for the plinth to fit.
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RobPulham - Sep 22, 2017 at 4:23 PM
Although I haven't posted much on this having concentrated on the coaches I have been making steady progress on the B16.
The tender is now complete with it's missing Vacuum pipe and axleboxes and just needs a good scrub before I take any photos.
From the previous photos I have fitted the cab roof and working back from the cab I have also fitted the cab side hand rails
I also started work on the washout plugs, and for the upper part of the firebox in the timeframe of this model, the oval base plate had been replaced with a round one.
In the kit these are represented by a circular half etched overlay but those in the kit were a little over etched therefore a bit on the flimsy side. So I made some replacements from some nickel rod threaded 14ba to these I added some Markits Crankpin washers (my last so I need to get some more) and a 14BA nut to finish.
Last thing, I gave it a good clean up scraping off lots of the excess solder that had built up in various areas.
Jim Snowdon - Sep 22, 2017 at 7:14 PM Rob, Before you get too far, the proportions of the upper washout plugs (which I suspect are more covers over mud hole doors than the traditional screwed plug) looked wrong, and checking on various photographs via Google confirmed that the nut was really quite small in relation to the size of the cover, irrespective of which type of cover is involved. I would suggest, if it is not too late, you change the covers for something larger, and the nuts for something distinctly smaller - on the full size locomotives, the nuts are relative pimples on the surface of the boiler cladding. Jim
RobPulham - Sep 25, 2017 at 7:52 PM
Thanks Jim,
Wrong terminology strikes again.
These are what I am trying to represent, albeit with the round covers that they had later in life.
While I agree that the covers could be bigger and I may see if I can change them. For the nuts themselves I am going to wait until I have the handrails and vacuum ejector pipe dry fitted to see whether that brings them back into proportion - While not perfect they are much better than the starting point.
RobPulham - Sep 29, 2017 at 10:52 AM
Washout Plugs, Proper
Not much modelling done this week due to not being at my best, but a bit of thinking in the lucid moments and looking at photographs of B16's. The conclusion that I reached is that washout plugs on B61/1's are a nightmare. Almost every photo you look at has different numbers in different positions - No Swindon standardisation here…
So I settled on the understanding that the loco that I am building '61450' had three on the right hand side and two on the left (looking forward from the cab). 61450, would also have to be one of these with the foremost washout plug on the front corner of the firebox. Working out how to do that took a bit of head scratching.
As I have said before, mostly those things that require most head scratching and trepidation prove to be simpler to just get on and do. So it was with this one. I marked off where each one would sit and drilled a small pilot hole. For the four that are sat square to the side I just kept using slightly bigger drill bits until I hit the size for the previously made backing plugs.
For the one at the corner of the firebox, I drilled a pilot quite close to the edge of the side of the firebox and again started to make it bigger. I stopped short two or three sizes smaller than I needed for the others and then using an oval diamond file, I filed the front of the firebox adjacent to the hole so that I had a 3/4 hole in either face of the firebox. I then used a round burr in my Dremel to ease it to final size.
Fitting the backing plugs and getting them in position was fun, it took at least three attempts on all but one of them. Once they were all soldered in place it was time to add the half etched overlays to the firebox sides around the holes. I tinned them all while still on the fret then cut them out and filed of the tag.
I decided to use the microflame to solder them in position because I reasoned that using the soldering iron (aside from the possibility of getting solder all over where I didn't want it), would possibly nudge them out of position too. This created the dilemma of heating the front face while making sure that the plug didn't drop off the inside of the firebox. to get around this I cut some short lengths of coffee stirrer and wedged them between the two washout plugs inside the firebox and away I went. - I did manage to set fire to one which gave Chris a bit of a moment….
On a couple I had to add the tiniest spec of extra solder to get them firm and the one folding around the front of the firebox took a few attempts to get it seated properly in both planes but I got there in the end. They still need cleaning up but not as much as they would have if I had attempted to use the iron to solder them on.
They are one of those details that will fade away once lost in the overall paintwork but which would be very noticeable if they weren't there. The plus point is that now that I have done them once doing them again on other locos will be quite straightforward.
RobPulham - Oct 2, 2017 at 4:42 PM
As mentioned briefly elsewhere the detailing of the B16 is coming along nicely but not without minor frustrations.
This is where I have got to so far -
On to the frustrations, earlier I had made the oil boxes that sit on the front splasher tops, the first one on the right hand splasher took about 10 attempts to solder it on, I would get it positioned and then clamped with self locking tweezers but each time I reached for the soldering iron to solder it from the back the blessed thing either moved or fell off. Finally I got it soldered in place and decided to do the other one. This was even worse, after three failed attempts to solder it on, it flew off into space and despite a good grovel I couldn't find it. So I set to and made another, blow me if the same thing didn't happen again. A couple or three failed attempts then twang…..
With the third iteration I filed a slight hollow in the base front to back so that it sat better on the splasher top and I managed to solder it on first go.
Next I made up and fitted the operating rod on the right hand side that was fitted to some locos. The casting was provided in the kit but I scratched the level from some scrap etch. This was all fairly straight forward as was drilling the foot plate and rear splashers and fitting the other oil boxes with the pipes. The boiler furniture again all went smoothly apart from the dome.
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My dome casting was ever so slightly misshapen so that the oval of the dome when viewed from the top was at odds with the curvature of the boiler. As I said it was only marginally out but enough to make the dome sit slightly out of square (if a round object can sit square….) As it turns out it was a blessing in disguise because as designed the kit only caters for the earlier type of boiler. As I understand it the main visible difference between them being the position of the dome either astride a boiler band or between them.
To remedy the misshape I cut of the threaded spigot from the bottom and then using a ball shaped burr I ground out the remnants of it mounting and then I wrapped a strips of sanding belt around the boiler and twisting ever so slightly I rubbed away at the casting until it sat down 'squarely' the added bonus was that I was then able to move it back quite a way so that it only just covered the etched hole in the boiler. While not 100% in the right place it's a lot better visually than had I just fitted it through the etched hole and moved on
RobPulham - Oct 5, 2017 at 6:53 PM
This week work on the B16 has continued to flow.
The lubricators are on and although you get plain castings I drilled them out to add the pipework inside some microbore tube that I picked up earlier in the year from Barry of MetalSmiths fame([USER=308]@Lankytank[/USER]).
There was a thread on the Guild site discussing drilling brass castings and one of the suggestions (besides buying proper drill bits) was to heat to a cherry red heat and let the casting cool naturally. I have used this method before and it has to be said without much success. I decided to try again and I have come to the conclusion that previously I just didn't get it red enough - this time the cheapo Microbox type drills went through it like butter. I did use my Proxxon Mini Pillar drill though.
You know when something niggles at you that there's something not quite right? Well I had the feeling and finally pinned it down to the fact that the chimney was just not quite on square so I heated it up and attempted to nudge it. I must have been a bit vigorous because the next second it was on the floor. The good news is that in knocking it off I had spread the solder a little in the right direction and putting it on square was a simple matter of putting it in place and then heating it with the microflame until it sank down in the solder. A little cleaning up and I was happy
RobPulham - Oct 6, 2017 at 4:52 PM Therein lies a bit of a problem, because they seem to be missing from the kit. Unfortunately unlike the G5 which I deliberately left them off so that the painter could add them in the form of transfers. This one is going to be all black and in theory they could be added but they seem to be missing. A bit of consultation is in order before I proceed further.
Jim Snowdon - Oct 6, 2017 at 5:02 PM Use strips of magic tape just as you would if they were lined, just applied first? Jim
RobPulham - Oct 6, 2017 at 5:34 PM Warren is going to paint it, I had a chat with him and he prefers to do exactly as Jim suggests. So problem solved.
RobPulham - Oct 9, 2017 at 4:34 PM
In between popping along to Keighley show where I had a great time chatting to many people I have made much progress on the B16. Unless something else jumps out at me while working on the chassis, the body is finished. Now it's onto the electrics plus the final details on the chassis. At this rate I may have to change plans and take it for a run on the test track at Shildon On Saturday afternoon.
While studying the one photo that I have of 61450, I noted that I had missed an oiler on the right rear splasher. I had made it but can't recall why I didn't fit it when I fitted the others but it's corrected now.
RobPulham - Oct 17, 2017 at 12:04 PM After my mistake with the wheels on Saturday, I sorted them out and with the weather being not too bad we cleaned up part of the circuit on the garden line and gave it a try.
Sadly, the rigid chassis doesn't take well to my less than generous curves but it is alive and now just needs final detailing.
Chris also took a few photos of it in the sunshine. Just a few more details to add before it goes of to Warren for painting.
—————————————————————————————– ChrisSimpson - Oct 17, 2017 at 12:15 PM
Hi Rob, it was good to speak to you both at Telford. That looks like a long walk from the cab to the tender. Is the drawbar correct? Chris
RobPulham - Oct 17, 2017 at 12:27 PM Thanks Chris, it was good to catch up with you too. Re the draw bar, it is based on the shorter of the two options included in the kit. But since I broke it during testing, I will be making a shorter version to replace it with. - It's made from PCB and I intend to reinforce the replacement with the etched version but with a section removed to keep the insulation intact.
RobPulham - Oct 17, 2017 at 6:04 PM Hi Peter, Sorting out the short,It was quite simple, I had one of the shorted out wheels on the wrong side of the axle.
RobPulham - Oct 31, 2017 at 9:40 PM
The last few days working on the B16 have been spent on making up the rather prominent cylinder drain cocks and their operating mechanism from the ends of JLRT coach vacuum or some such pipes of which I had four in my spares box and scrap etch. I also made up and fitted the rear sand pipes.
Tonight I reassembled it and took the following photos before dropping it off at Warren's for painting.
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